"[I]t will make me react in violence much faster than I normally
would."
The following is an unedited first-person account of what one Black woman experiences - emotionally, ideationally and behaviorally - when she sees a Black man who is a stranger in the company of a white woman. I have numbered the paragraphs below for easy reference and discussion. I received this account from a woman who heard that I am writing a book about this topic and who acknowledges that she is not happy or comfortable with her own skin-color aroused emotion, ideation and behavior:
(1)"When I see them my first thought is here we go again another black man lost to white woman. Then my second thought is why does this man feel that a black woman is not good enough for him and then comes the anger and irritation.
(2) But, I try to make a point to speak to the black man at least by saying hello and I get more angry when he seems to be nervous to say hello back. Which makes me think if he feels uncomfortable saying hello to me only because he's with a white woman then what the hell are you doing with her. Now the white woman this man was with was overweight like most americans and not beautiful by most american standards. But whenever an overweight black woman would look at this man he would not pay her any attention. Which causes my irritation level to go up. Now this setting is in a club so this may not be the man's girlfriend but she at least appears to be his
interest for the night.
(3) But my main feeling is that all the black men that date white women these days feel that we are not good enough for them. I'm sure you heard all the negative stereotypes, overweight, nag to much, have to many kids and no education. Which makes me so angry because unless they forgot where they came from but there mother is also a black woman. And for you to speak down and negatively to another black woman just because of her color and all stereotypes because you prefer blond hair and blue eyes is disrespectful to all and every black woman.
(4) But my main feeling Francis is anger and hurt.
(5) There are not many white women that I associate with and I'm also not a confrontational person. But my brother has a girlfriend for the first time that is not a black woman and we got into an argument regarding it that caused me to not speak to him for a while and we speak almost everyday. So I expressed to him how I feel and it turned real bad he said a bunch of negative things about black women and that was the worst argument we have had since we were adults.
(6) He would say things like he would never date another black women again. That we talk to much, we always try to be in control and don't listen. So I said to him that a black woman would be to strong for you to handle. And that you must realize to yourself that you don't have anything going for you that a black woman much less any woman would want to be with you. The only reason he has a woman period is because the man shortage. And don't forget that your ass ain't that small either. I also had to remind him where he came from and for him to remember that since his daughters are black that he just put them down as well as his mother, myself and every other black woman he loves in his family.
(7) But in another situation I was at a concert and there was this white girl who was talking to a black man and it was very crowded. She was trying to push me out of her way and I think because I can't stand to see this that it caused me to over react in this situation. So of course I pushed her back and she turned around and called me a black bitch and I was walking up getting ready to beat the shit out of her and these guys held me back. So it did not go as far as I wanted it to go but because I dislike it so much it will make me react in violence much faster than I normally would."
In paragraphs (1) and (2) above, the Black woman writer, whom I will refer to by the pseudonym "America," is able to identify the emotions that she feels when she sees a bi-chromatic couple, particularly a Black man in the company of a white woman. She feels "anger and hurt," (paragraph 4) as well as envy and jealousy.
Without testing the reality of her statements about what the Black man is thinking, it's clear that when she thinks that a Black man would prefer to be with a white woman than to be with her, America becomes angry. She personalizes the Black man's choice as a choice against her personally, and this mental behavior makes her more angry. She compares her own overweight to that of the overweight white woman and concludes that the Black man's choice is fundamentally unfair and unreasonable. And then she feels more righteous anger.
America has a longstanding policy of "try[ing] to make a point to speak to the black man," which, she acknowledges, often brings her into direct and unforeseen conflict with complete strangers, Black and white. In the last sentence of paragraph (2), America speculates about the strangers' relationship to one another ("she may not be the man's girlfriend but she at least appears to be his interest for the night") and her conclusions fuel her anger.
In paragraph (3), America expresses her belief that Black men don't think Black women are as good as white women, and she clearly expresses that this relates directly to to her own self-esteem. "[B]lack men that date white women these days feel that we are not good enough for them." She express hurt at her perception that, as an overweight Black woman, she is ignored by Black men who favor even overweight white women to overweight Black women. America clearly as a lot of hurt "stored up" over these issues, and it is weighing upon her self-esteem and fueling her angry behavior.
In paragraph (5), America transitions into a discussion of her isolation from white women and how this has effectively left her estranged from her own brother, hurting her family relationships. When her brother started seeing a white woman, she confronted him (just as she always has other Black male strangers whom she saw with white women in public.) This lead to a breakdown in communication between her and her brother. I caused "an argument regarding it that caused me to not speak to him for a while and we speak almost everyday."
(In an increasingly multi-chromatic America where the boundaries of de facto segregation are slowly breaking down, one wonders if this same sort of argument and estrangement is not occurring literally all the time between family members of every color-group?) Paragraph (5) shows how marked color-aroused emotion and ideation that become manifest in behavior sometimes hurt the color-aroused person as much as anyone else.
Paragraph (6) tells us that America's brother avows strict color-aroused ideation and behavior, observing a rule not to date Black women (people like his sister). (America, too, believes in and endeavors to enforce a strict color-based discrimination in romantic partner choices, except that America discriminates in favor of monochromatic dating while her brother says discriminates strictly in favor of bi-chromatic Black man/white woman dating.)
In paragraph (7), America describes facts which lead one to believe that her condition has escalated out of control, because her emotions and ideation are leading to potentially deadly confrontations with complete strangers who have not engaged her previously in any way. When she saw a Black man who was a stranger engaging in conversation with a white woman who was a stranger, America engaged in a shoving match that she acknowledges occurs because she "can't stand to see that." The white woman calls America a skin-color-associated antagonistic name, and now America acknowledges that her initial tendency to "over-react" leads to a situation in which she only avoids being hurt or hurting someone else, and perhaps being arrested, charged and convicted because "these guys held me back."
Amazingly, America expresses regret that she did NOT engage in a bar fight. "So it did not go as far as I wanted it to go but because I dislike it so much it will make me react in violence much faster than I normally would." To put this into context, we must remember that the bar argument after which Ron Pettaway was killed ostensibly involved a much less charged topic and was between two Black men, not a white woman and a Black woman. It is not hard to imagine that America's behavior could have led to an arrest and conviction, during which processes she might well have lost her job and suffered severe financial repercussions.
With America's stored feelings of hurt coming to the fore when she sees her brother dating a white woman, America experiences color-aroused anger and sadness. Complex ideation and emotions come associated with her own self-esteem and overweight come flooding back. She and her brother argue and insult one another over their skin-color associated attitudes, with America clearly manifesting much anger and hurt in an insult-laden tirade directed toward her brother, after which they stop talking.
America's angry color-aroused behavior is tearing at the integrity of her sibling relationship. (Remember that our discussion is based on America's own account of her behavior in this interaction.) One even suspects that America's brother's new assertion that he will only date white women in the future (he dated Black women in the past) may have been provoked by the confrontation he has had with America over the issue. Even had he made this decision independently, he might not have said so to America but for her angry confrontation over this issue.
Meanwhile, America says that her brother's color-associated rule against dating all Black women shows color-associated animosity toward all women in that group, including his mother, his sister and his daughters. America raises an important issue: Can a Black man who discriminates against all Black women raise Black daughters to have strong self-esteem and a healthy sense of self-worth? Can he love himself even as he angrily disassociates himself from a group that includes his mother, his sister and his own daughters?
One of the most interesting things about this account is the clear interaction and interplay between America's thoughts and feelings, with her thoughts fueling and heightening the emotional distress that she feels at every turn. For America to resolve her inner turmoil and rebuild her own self-esteem, she may need to reassess the messages she gives herself about the significance of Black man/white woman dating. She will need to look for a way to meet her own needs for intimacy without endeavoring to forcibly control and compel how all Black men - even strangers - relate to all white women. Fundamentally, she will need to acknowledge that it will hurt her most of all if she continues to automatically manifest all of her hurt and anger spontaneously in confrontations with strangers.
Her behavior reminds me of an incident that occurred two decades ago in Providence, Rhode Island. I was walking down a public street with a pretty white woman to whom I felt attracted, but with whom I was not in a romantic relationship. Two white men passed slowly in a pick-up truck and one screamed out of the window, "What are you doing walking with that "N**ger?!" I screamed back, 'Get out of your truck and say that again!" Instead, the white men drove on and the incident ended there.
Ironically, just as the white men were trying to enforce a strict rule against bi-chromatic dating, America seeks the same result and for pretty much the same reason: to preserve potential mates of her own skin-color for people of her group while denying them to people of another group. Although doctrinally "racism" may be an activity in which only white people can engage, still psychologically it is clear that both Blacks and whites can and do engage in extreme color-aroused emotion and ideation that becomes manifest in extreme color-aroused antagonistic behavior.
In these cases, the potential for spontaneous violence with strangers is one key to identifying "extreme" color-aroused behavior as distinguished from "benign," "mild" and "moderate" color-aroused behavior. The words benign, mild, moderate and extreme in this context refer not to the relationship to color stimuli, which is clear, but rather to the potential for these emotions, ideation and behavior to result in marked impairment of the color-aroused person in one or more key areas of life, such as family relationships, romantic relationships and continued ability to work and earn a living.
Unfortunately, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) offers no treatment guidelines to help a person with the ideation and emotional and behavior problem described above because the APA does not necessarily consider such behavior to be evidence of a problem with which psychiatrists should concern themselves.
May 29, 2007
Black Woman Struggles with Color-Aroused Emotion, Ideation and Behavior, with a Bi-Chromatic Couple Cue
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19 comments:
these reactions of our people are controlled by the creators of the situations that manifest this behavoir.her reaction is normal when youve been lied to about what your reacting to.artificially created crayon box colors that we have been drawn down to.the truth about the albions is that we have to stop giving them credit for anything except killing an lying.the white woman is not really white dont worry.she lives the lie of a status that they are even slaves under now.in true true astrology saturn does not see color when it is in effect so any man an any woman that are human or sub human man or man kind will connect.the woman an where she is from is not known.man really doesnt know where his mother is from so he lies to his daughter an tells them that they come from him.when doing this he doesnt honor his mother but worships a mystery man created by the romans.the fall of woman was her being made to bow down to man .her subjugation is represented by the symbol on a shriners fez or crown.her forced acceptance an threat an duress level in having to teach this to her sons has been a diobolical rape of every asp ect of re-spect.father son holy ghost when its mother son or sun or sol which sounds like soul.woman find out who you are and claim your power back through the university of the womb which is the cosmology astrology that the leaders of this world stole from you an fool to rule with its applications an rituals.dont be part of them the woman was the ruler an she was the cheiftess who sent men into battle an fought herself.so its not her fault that she doesnt see two human beings but a white and a black one.she did not upset the balance she created(human beings) but because she created the balance the justice the maat she is now a victim of her sons (mans) disrespect toward her.a sickness created by the albions can be overcome by us.only one cant live without the other .if the albion can survive or live without something it becomes extinct so the need or lack we fill for their survival keps us in the atmosphere.they cannot live in what we created without us.we first seperated ourselves from them after their creation by yacoub thats why they lived in c aves for so long we never did.when the woman gets back her knowledge an power the world will balance out properly.the creator is the boss so like kelis said shes bossy but if my mother who raised me from the womb was bossy why would i want my kids mother to ba anything less.the black woman is going to have to learn to handle that she is not black an that a man is not god an did not create her.they gain atrength but are held down by the idea of creation that was forced upon them by man.if you have melanated skin she is the only god that is not the devil or a created entity.what has been created by man-kind is an atrocity religion an color wise an the lead blacks(overseers) who sell out each year by pushing the lie.are just as guilty as their masters. by keeping secrets for the chosen few like they made you a christian from a jew christian black codes not natural to you but they are enforced by the bloodline crew. tell them to spell the words right an stop casting spells for the matrix play one more venus transit on the 16th of the coming august day. last venus transit the day of the 33 souls at rest at virginia tech all sisters go to www.shrineofmaat.com or .org to learn about your true self.sister myra el is a powerful sister .dr jewel pookram, queen afua, suzar,all woman of the moorish science temple can help another sister back to her true self.the so called blaxck man is god because he is the sun of god like sunday an moon or monday represents the woman coded into the first day well she really was first man second.original woman if you fall then we all are dead.you are our life an all that it encompasses
I don't know what to say to this, but I want to thank "America" for sharing her experiences so that we may learn from them.
There is one thing I'm curious to hear opinions about. Do you think having a certain "type" that a person finds attractive is related to color arousal, or just harmless personal taste? For example, say a man finds Asian women more attractive than other women, does that mean he has a problem?
Anne, I too am very grateful to "America" for sharing her experiences with us.
I think that it would take a psychiatrist and a few years of therapy to tease out the distinction between color and facial morphology-related attraction to Asian women and that is associated with ethnicity and, on the other hand, an aesthetic preference color or morphology preference that is devoid of ethnicity-related content.
In our society and all over the world, even benign preference receives third party scrutiny and criticism.
The key is what the person's ideation and emotions are and how and whether these are manifested in behavior. I think the time for simple answers is over and we have to acknowledge that this area is just as complex and nearly inscrutable as the study of depression. And yet, we have learned much about depression through objective observation and research that has made depression much more manageable.
People's motivation in such a complex area is unlikely to be simple. And so, if they find that it causes them trouble, in their relationships or otherwise, then they should seek out competent counseling to help them sort it out.
Why do you ask?
Why do I ask? I just over-analyze things sometimes - exactly which behaviors/thoughts constitute prejudice? Does personal aesthetic taste constitute prejudice? This has been a question in the back of my mind since long before I met you, and this set of posts about dating-type relationships made me think about it.
Also, I hope I don't sound like I'm criticizing "America" too much - that's not my intention. But everyone has different tastes that shouldn't be taken as a personal insult. She may prefer tall men, or men with a certain type of haircut, or intellectual men or men of a certain age group, whatever, and that's just what she likes. So I wonder if liking a certain skin tone or hair color is much different? I'm saying there's someone for everyone, and you can't expect to be everyone's "type," but guaranteed you are someone's type.
Anne: I'd say that there are rarely easy answers. Whether someone has an aesthetic preference or a skin-color or ethnicity-aroused bias is really a matter of fact which can only be proven by information much of which resides within the person's head.
Sometimes people engage in verbal expressions or outward behavior that allows us to infer their ideation and emotions from their behavior. Even with verbal behavior such as that which got Imus fired, there is sometimes great disagreement about what to infer from verbal utterances.
Unfortunately, it seems to me that over the last fifty years we have really not advanced little in our public discussion beyond the point where we wait for people to say something so extreme that we can finally say, "gotcha" with conviction. The real opportunity for advancement is with people who are motivated to express what they feel to others, something that is unlikely to occur when all of our attention is focused on waiting for incidents of "gotcha" "racism."
Whenever a television program focuses on a particular mental or physical illness, there is a telephone number or website that one can research "if you think a friend or relative might have this illness." Often we speak about "racism" on television, but where is the telephone number to call if you believe a family member may be affected? There really are few or no resources to which you can refer that family member for help with his problem, although there are many victims' resources.
It might be much more efficient to offer more treatment to color-aroused people than to focus exclusively on treatment for their many victims. By analogy, if you can get one drunk driver off of the road and into an alcohol treatment program, you might keep thirty other of his/her victims out of the hospital emergency room.
Francis, if everything were equal, then America, and other Black women wouldn't get so upset.
But, they are NOT equal.
I don't get into fights about it, but it doesn't make me happy. Though, if some White woman called me a 'Black Bitch', I'd try and stomp her into the ground - I'm not taking that White Privilege $(%* from no White woman. (I'm not a violent person).
With the exception of a Bill Maher, if you look at White men of any means, who have a 'Woman of Color' on their arms, be her Black, Hispanic, Asian -THAT woman has her OWN thing 'going on'. He's NOT choosing from the secretarial pool.
While, so many of our Black men, it seems that the only qualifier they have, is that she be White. Period. Nothing of substance, just that she be White.
And, yes, for a well-educated Black woman like myself, I DO find that to be insulting.
Yes, it is insulting how some men (of any color) seem to care only about the superficial aspects of women.
I would be interested to hear from men who have dated both black and white women:
a. Did the man have certain expectations of what the relationship with a white woman would be like? And
b. Was it what he thought it would be?
I ask because I think some people stereotype and either idealize or fear what they don't really understand. Maybe people think the "grass is greener on the other side."
Rikyrah: I think this is an important - even central area - in which the belief that "Blacks cannot be 'racist'" has not served us well as Blacks. The assumption has been that since we didn't have the same powers or motivation that whites had to hurt Blacks, that therefore the color-aroused harm we do to each other is relatively insignificant.
But Black women know this is not true. When Black women want and need to rely on Black men as potential mates, it is devastating to Black women's aspirations when Black men decide, for whatever reason, that they simply will not date Black women, as America's brother expressed.
It's worth pointing out a couple of facts that America reports about her own behavior. She became incensed the very first time her brother dated a white woman, although he had always dated and parented children with Black women previously. And she acknowledges that it was the fury of her attack on her brother that drove the wedge between her and her brother - a Black man.
I believe that for most Black people, having a white woman calling them a "Black bitch" would arouse sufficient anger to lead to a strong desire to punish and deter that verbally assaultive behavior by physically attacking the person.
However, America acknowledges that bars and clubs have essentially become the battleground where she engages in this competition with white women. America acknowledges that she may have played a role in provoking this physical confrontation with her resentful and belligerent attitude toward white women and toward this white woman. And she suggests that acknowledges that this may play a role in impairing her at least socially with all white women.
What we have to ask ourselves is, "Is America getting her needs met by coping with her emotions and ideation through this behavior, or is she merely becoming an increasingly angry, bitter and assaultive woman, without getting her needs met at all. And what is this doing to America's self-esteem?"
Rikyrah, America and many Black women are angry about the ideation (and presumably emotion) that a significant number of Black men show that manifests in a refusal to engage romantically with Black women. Black women perceive that Black men's perception of their color alone is sometimes sufficient for a series of ideational and emotional processes to take place within Black men that leads to a behavior - dismissing and disregarding all Black women for mating purposes.
Is it important to individual Blacks, male and female, to explore and resolve this relational ideation, anger and estrangement behavior? It is hard to see how this can change unless individual Blacks accept responsibility for seeking constructive ways to deal with our anger and hurt and to reassess our behavior. And yet who will help us with this? Can America and her brother resolve their estrangement on their own, or might they need help, each to look within and then both to deal with each other?
If the problem were addiction to drugs or alcohol then it might seem obvious that we needed professional help to resolve such a deep-seated and difficult problem. If it were a matter of spousal abuse, we might even acknowledge that we needed help to get out of the situation. But because the problem is color-associated antagonism between Black men and women, we have assumed that we either had to resolve this ourselves or live with it, but that professional help had no role to play.
Meanwhile, our assumption that "only whites can be 'racist,'" while doctrinally correct, blinds us to the fundamental ways that we can and do hurt each other. This is where we really need to study our own color-aroused emotions, ideation and behavior if we are to make any progress at all. When we acknowledge the importance of our own emotion, ideation and behavior, that really is an acknowledgment that we matter as people in our own right, not just as victims of white people's abuse.
I find the idea that only whites can be racist to be insane. I think that if you look at many ethnic groups you will find instances of extreme racism not only to groups outside their own but within their own group as well. Because a certain group doesn't have "power" doesn't mean they can't harm those of another group.
As someone who has had about a 50/50 as far as relationships with black and white men, I find the differences are between the people and their personalities, not their color. What attracts me in a white man is the same thing that attracts me in a black man; intelligence, humor, looks, and overall compatibility.
I realize there are many people who see problems with dating outside the group, like it takes people out of the dating pool, leaving no one for them. Maybe if they broadened their own pool from which to date there would be less problems? I don't see any problem if someone wants to date exclusively within their race but they need to realize that some people are focused more on overall compatibility than on color.
My husband is what society would call black and I am what society would call white. He lived in a predominately white area and went to white schools when he was growing up. I grew up in a black area and went to black school. We are in our forties now, so a lot of things were happening 1969 through the early 1980’s. He has had a black wife before, and I have had a white husband before. We both have an adult child out of wedlock, him with a white woman and me with a black man both children were before the marriages mentioned above.
He does not have a college education, only now after ten years of marriage, watching me complete my BA and then struggle to get into graduate school has he decided to go to school. To be frank I probably have had nothing to do with his desire to go to college, and instead it is more to do with his government job, he is a GS-12 and sees all the idiots he has to deal with daily but also knows that whenever he puts in for another job a college degree or lack of is used to reject him.
We met in the service, we were both the same rate and the same rank. Also we were above our peers. When we were brought together from different units, the prefabricated story created by all the deadbeat white men was that we would both try to out smart the other, kill the other in the pursuit for the single promotion. Instead, we both saw the benefits of working with each other’s projects. We were accused of behaviors we did not commit. “Fucking, having an affair, sucking dick in a utility truck, fucking in the xerox room so on and so on.” None of it was true. Our accusers were mostly all white men. We had to suffer through the formal process that comes with such an accusation in the military.
When my enlistment was up, I got out. The day I was leaving he asked me to marry him, I accepted, we got married.
We live in a bubble somewhat. Meaning we do not and cannot allow what others to think of us to affect us. He seemed hurt by more of the stares, glares, and glances than I did, but I assumed it was because I grew up with it. If I had waited to go on a field trip, an amusement park, ride the city bus, have friends with anyone white I would have became a hermit. The only people our family knew were black, so whenever we venture outside of our world with our friends we saw the stares.
We have had a few incidents with black women. We have defused each incident by ignoring it. However, ignoring does not mean it is forgotten. When we were first married a group of three black women followed us throughout a mall. Our first knowledge of these women was when one, the most vocal, said something like “Why can’t I have a fine black man like that.” Then she sucked her teeth repeatedly and loudly. We thought that would be the worst of it until we realized they were deliberately following us and made a point of letting us know they were following us by saying things like “Yeah, we are still here looking.” It was very juvenile and only stopped after we physically left the mall. We had another incident the other day at our child’s school. It was open house so it was very crowded. As everyone was leaving there was a black woman, who happened to be fat, maybe a size 22, squeezed in a very tight pair of apple bottoms jeans. I only noticed her because as the three of us, me, my husband, and child were approaching the main hallway from the west hall she and about four little girls, all black, between the ages of 9-15 maybe were approaching the main hall from the east hall. It would not have made an impression but as we merged Ms. Apple Bottom loudly said, “Lord, Jesus Christ, I cannot take this shit.” Still we moved on because she could have been talking about anything. But then the slow walking and loud talking continued. The deliberate slowing down, the hindering of an opening to pass. The demand for attention. The demand for us to deal with a complete stranger that has nothing in the world to do with our quality of life until she forces her way into that position. Since the husband was holding the child’s hand and the child was holding my hand, he slipped by a single spot and we followed in a line through. When we got in front of the group he said in a louder voice than usual, “who wants ice cream.” Which of course our child piped up and said “me, me.” When we got home I asked him why did he rub salt in that woman wounds. He said because she did not need to be acting like that and it would not have bothered him as much but he felt like the children she was with knew what she was doing, as if she had properly indoctrinated them into repeating the same behavior. That was as much of the subject he discussed.
However, I feel that I am not being seen as a person, as a woman, as a human with feelings. I did not take anybody from anyone because I do not feel as if someone has a birthright to another person, period. Skin color or not. Feeling as if one has a right to another person is entitlement. It is also mimicking the attitude of white men, how white men feel it is their right to be in power, to be considered smarter, more qualified, more whatever, it is mimicking racism. I cannot and will not respect anyone who perpetuates the same racist practices that have gotten us where we are as a country right now. My husband is a man with his own mind, his own feelings. Yes I am not the thin woman he married. I have gained weight. So if someone wants to dismiss me as a fat white woman with a black man, then they are also dismissing my history with that man. He is not the size I married either. I am not grossly overweight but what weight I have added has baggage to it. Why my weight with black man has to be different than anyone who has gained some weight. I have gained weight because of the stress of school, the stress of dealing with a husband (when we first got married) who wanted to buy instead of save, who had back taxes and child support and a car that was not in his budget range, the stress of realizing maybe I am not the marrying type. All which have been mostly resolved now, but still I went through it.
I have had to live through his mother treating me as if I am the white woman that her husband left her for. His mother and father had not been sleeping in the same room for ten years, worked different shifts, and had probably not made love for whatever amount of time, so the father left the mother for the white woman he had been working with for twenty years. I’m not saying he did not take the coward way out, looked for greener grass or whatever, but I will say, I am not that white woman, and my marriage to her son is not her marriage to her then husband. I am sick of being that white woman simply because I have white skin. I am a person with my own story.
Even though my husband was divorced from his black wife a full two years before he met me, now in his home town, I have become that white woman who broke their marriage up. Her mama cursed me out in the supermarket when we went to his hometown last Christmas.
Anyway, I just wanted to say, I am a person. I know society assigns benefits to some because of skin color and little to none to others. I know that many people take advantage of this structure. The black woman who gets angry at me is a person too, but I cannot be her punching bag, I just cannot, because I am a person too. What I do and who I am cannot be summed up by just looking at me or by my skin color. And I promise I will not (and do not) sum others up by just looking at them or their skin color.
Donna Rose
Nathalie: Thanks for your honest comments. Rather than use the word "racist," which has many doctrinal, political and ideological meanings that don't fit well within a discussion of psychiatry, I prefer the term Extreme Color Arousal. (ECA) As soon as we use the phrase "extreme color-arousal" instead of "racism," it becomes apparent that any person who is human can have emotions, ideation and behavior that color-aroused and that are extreme. This is an example of where ideological language - from all sides - has blinded us to crucial facts that would otherwise be obvious.
When we insist that we don't have the "power" to harm each other or others, we really disempower ourselves ideologically. Because of the advance of science, anyone with access to a science book and the Internet has the power to harm others and affect (but not govern) society. Whether or not s/he chooses to exercise that power is another issue.
I congratulate you for having the courage to acknowledge dating as many white men as Black. That issue is the third rail of many conversations among Blacks.
I have dated about as many white women as Blacks. When I was young and inexperienced, I left a very caring and loving white woman with whom I had a very successful relationship because I wanted to date Black women and "play the field." I immediately regretted the loss of intimacy and came to very much regret the decision I had made. From that experience, I learned that deep regret can result whenever one leaves a good and loving relationship with a woman of any skin-color.
I am attracted to women who are sharing, caring, and are just as likely to pay for dinner or a movie as I am. I like women live simply and couldn't care less about status, fancy clothes and cars and big houses.
When I met the white woman whom I mentioned above, I was a college student and had virtually no money beyond that which was necessary for food and rent. On our first date, gathered up the money that she had and that I had to see a movie, and when we still didn't have enough, she watched unfazed as I collected the loose change from between the seats of my car.
When someone who is not from a wealthy family commits himself to getting a college education, such moments of pennilessness often occur. To people who find themselves alone - men and women of any color - I would encourage them to ask themselves whether they would be willing to pay for dinner and a movie for a struggling college student, or whether they would reject that student because s/he was unable to help them financially?
Do people who are doing well financially still insist that their prospective mate help them to do even better, essentially giving status climbing and increased material wealth a higher priority than love and intimacy?
Have you ever treated a member of the opposite sex to a meal, or do you believe that it is their duty and place to treat you, even when you have more money than they do?
I once dated a (Black) woman who had a good job, two cars and two homes at a time when I had just lost my job and did not know how long I would be able to pay my rent. When I suggested to her that she pick up the tab at a restaurant, she became infuriated and began to berate me. Clearly, it was very important to her that we maintain traditional male/female roles with respect to money, even if these roles bore no relationship to our actual financial wherewithal in the present. When she said she wanted a husband who would buy her a house with five bathrooms, I knew that our interaction could not last. We had very different priorities and a profoundly different sense of what was important.
I also dated a (Black) woman who went out with me regularly while I had a car, but refused to go to the movies with me by bus. "Got no money, you got no car, then you got no woman and there you are!" says the rap song "Bust a Move."
I have often heard women say that they "refuse to lower their standards," when their standards have as much to with the material possessions and status of their prospective mate as with intimacy, love and sharing and other non-material values. When such women need financial support from their mates to maintain a middle-class lifestyle, then I can understand this attitude. But, when they only want a mate who can improve a lifestyle that is already quite affluent, then that value system necessarily decreases the pool of potential mates and has consequences.
Affluent Black women from the United States have a power and bring something to the table that they may never have considered: They are citizens of a country where many men from all over the world would like to live, and they have the power to help to confer permanent residence and eventually citizenship on their chosen mate who is from overseas, by marriage. For relatively affluent Black women, this could expand the pool of eligible men many fold, if Black men from Brazil, Nicaragua, the Dominican Republic, African countries, and Europe, etc. are considered.
Considering that men of all skin colors in the United States often marry women from overseas, there is no obvious reason why Black women cannot do so also. Of course this is hardly a guarantee of success, but it is a guarantee of a larger candidate pool.
After moving to Brazil, I married an Afro-Brazilian woman.
@Donna You clearly have a lot of experience both with bi-chromatic love and marriage and with the Extreme Color-Aroused Antagonism of others who disapprove of your marriage. Thank you for sharing your experience, which will probably become more common as color-aroused decision-making becomes less frequent.
"The percentage of all U.S. married couples that are interracial nearly doubled from 2.9 percent to 5.4 percent between 1990 and 2000, to a total of more than 3 million.1 And recent surveys reveal that American attitudes toward intermarriage have also steadily improved: While 70 percent of adults in 1986 said they approved of interracial marriage, that figure had climbed to 83 percent by 2003, according to a Roper Reports study.2 "We are seeing declining levels of objection to interracial marriage," says Smith. PRB.ORG"
There it is - eloquently said as usual, Francis. I have dated black, white, and Hispanic men. The better I get to know them, the more obvious it is that color doesn't matter in a dating relationship. Every person is a unique, complex individual.
I don't think tht I'll really get into this because of the beliefs that I have about mental illness and mental disorders. I think that we have to be careful in advocating that a pretty common reaction or behaviour is a mental illness that needs to be recognized. Mental illnesses tend to be rare or an extreme presentation of 'normal' behaviour that otherwise healthy people exhibit from time to time. Many people have unusual behaviours but unless they significantly interfere with their quality of life then there is no need to diagnose them with a disorder. Unless the diagnosis helps the people to receive treatment they really need in order to function then its just a label that doesn't really do anything other than stigmatize the individual. Maybe some of this can be explained by other existing disorders or problems like xenophobia, low self-esteem, envy, depression, defeatism, anxiety, etc.
If there were many more Black men than Black women then would Black women be less angry about this? They would be more secure in knowing that they could get a Black man if they wanted and maybe less of them would see the need to date interratially. It think that this can be explained by existing theories and diagnoses without it being a new mental disorder. Do we really need another reason for people of colour to be given diagnoses that will follow them for the rest of their lives, or to be ordered into treatment? They are already more prone to have that happen anyway because non-Black practitioners often view expected reations of oppressed people as signs of mental illness. If this becomes a disorder then even more people of colour will be labled 'mentally ill' in disproportionate numbers compared to non-Blacks.
BronzeTrinity: I understand your thinking and your concern about stigmatization and color-aroused diagnosis by the psychiatric profession. But, this diagnosis might give psychiatrists a realistic alternative to the diagnosis of "schizophrenia" and "paranoia," which are diagnosis that Blacks receive at a rate 2 to 4 times that of whites.
Also our fear of being called mentally ill ourselves is causing us to deny that whites who exhibit extreme color-aroused behavior may be mentally ill.
I think even America would acknowledge that she needs help. If she keeps angrily confronting bi-chromatic couples in the street, then she could get hurt or hurt someone else. And she also needs help to recover her relationship with her brother, unless she's willing to relinquish him as well in her anger at white women.
Certainly, her troubles result partly from circumstances, including the persecution of Black men that makes us relatively scarce and Black men's choices . But, what is the likelihood that these trends will immediately disappear. Can America afford to wait for those societal trends to change before she addresses her own serenity?
If America goes to a psychiatrist and DOESN'T talk about these issues, isn't she wasting her money and her time, and getting inadequate medical treatment? Won't she end up on medication for anger and depression without facing the source of her frustration?
Certainly, America has a lot to be angry about, but if she keeps picking fights with strangers in bar, she might end up dead.
I think Black psychiatrists like Dr. Carl C. Bell, are determined to get past the ideological issue of whether "America" "should" need help to deal with the fact that she DOES need help, to identify and resolve the issues surrounding color-arousal.
But from what I know there are psychologists and psychologists who can discuss America's issues and treat her already without needing the diagnosis. Mainly Black therapists are skilled in this area or research and treatment. There is already Black psychology and it has been around ever since the first Black psychologists began doing research. She can go to someone experienced with Black issues and get treatment from them. Lots of people can do the same thing. The problems is that many non-Black (and probably some Black) therapists, psychologists, and psychiatrists don't know about the literature, theories, or treatments. Thats why there is pressure now for practitioners to develop multicultural competence and learn about other cultures. If they receive this extra education then they would be less likley to diagnose someone with paranoia or schizophrenia. Their behaviour would make sense given their circumstances. There are certain behaviours (negative and positive) that are developed depending on their circumstances (e.g., being Black, Asian, Caucasian, religious, homosexual, etc.) that are understandable if their backgrounds are taken into account. Then they don't need to be treated like they are 'sick'. They can just be helped to adapt, learn skills, handle conflicts, and live happier lives given their backgrounds. This type of training will be useful to anyone with adverse circumstance or anyone at all who wants to handle their life better. If a new diagnosis is just put into the DSM-IV and psychiatrists just read off the symptoms and make a diagnosis then that would be a major problem. What would be better is making cross-cultural or multicultual education mandatory in universities and also having continued education about cultural issues. Then when a psychiatrist sees a Black patient he will look into cultural issues before just diagnosing someone with schizophrenia. Thats what they are actually supposed to do now but of course not everyone does it.
BT, resources get organized in society around the medical problems identified in the DSM, and those resources in turn increase the likelihood that people with those conditions will be treated and treated knowledgeably and effectively. Insurers are compelled to cover diagnosis and treatment for illnesses that are listed in the DSM-IV.
A couple of years ago, I began doing a study of the medical resources available to people whose extreme color-arousal was manifested in assaultive behavior, threats, workplace harassment, etc. Effectively, as a number of Black psychiatrists have observed, the APA position is that wanting to kill someone because they are Black is not necessarily a problem with which the APA should concern itself.
How many Civil Wars, "race" riots, Civil Rights Movements, hate crimes laws, and multi-hundred million dollar harassment suits do we need before we decide that Extreme Color Arousal, which is not in the DSM-IV is at least as important as claustrophobia, which IS in the DSM-IV?
Around a million hate crimes and discrimination cases are brought nationally each year, and we are afraid that acknowledging the problem will create a stigma?
Unfortunately, Black AND whites are more concerned with being embarrassed and defamed than with getting adequate medical treatment for a very serious disease. Of course the same could be said about alcoholism: "That group of people has enough problems without being called "sick" and having treatment centers set up all over the country whose very existence serves to stigmatize alcoholics." But isn't the opportunity for adequate treatment a pretty good trade-off for the extra stigma?
When we hurl the word "racist" at people, we are trying to stigmatize them. Wouldn't it be more constructive to develop some treatment alternatives for what ails them, instead of just calling them names and hoping they'll change?
There is no more reason to believe that education alone will treat ECA than there is to believe that education alone will treat PTSD. In fact, the last forty years of often frustrating efforts and the constant refrain from Blacks that "we're tired of educating whites" should tell us that some of our trusted modalities aren't as effective as we had hoped.
I am a well educated very blonde white woman. I am very aware of the racial issues addressed here. I date intelligent caring men who happen to be black. It's my own personal preference; just as I prefer taller men. The men I date prefer intelligent caring women who happen to be white. And yes, I've heard the comments about differences in the behaviors of black women vs white women. And yes, I've dealt with the sometimes open hostility from white men and black women about my preferences. Realistically we all have to deal with the issue; as it's a growing part of our world.
I'm not a young defiant woman-at 44, with a post graduate degree, and considered attractive by men of all races, I feel that as a contributing member of this society I have the right to make personal choices about who I choose to spend my time with.
So it pains me; as well as it does America, to be placed under any blanket judgment. By anyone-black or white.
Thanks for writing this. I have to say, I prefer white men, but I can completely relate to EVERYTHING America said. What is wrong with me then?
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